Epoxy … I prefer the urethane type sealers, the old school sealers seam to dry up later and become brittle. Etch Primer can be tricky. Sign up now to receive exclusive email deals, industry news, and new product releases.*. But don't paint over straight etch. This product is the product you apply block sand, apply more til its straight. An example of the application order on bare metal is: 1) bodywork including filler/bondo 2) paint prep solvent 3) self-etch primer 4) high-build primer 5) basecoat 6) clearcoat. It’s no secret that self etching primer is one of the best options for sealing up metal and keeping a barrier between bare metal and the moisture that tries to rust the metal! Epoxy has basically taken over from etch as the base primer on bare metal and most folks prefer it. You can paint over varnished wood as long as you use the right materials and painting process. That’s really nice for hobby use involving small projects. You can prime and paint one day, then reassemble the following weekend after letting the parts sit all week. Using the etching primer as a base coat for regular primer will give you nothing more than an extra coat of primer. You can paint with whatever you want over cold gal, you don't need to etch prime as if it was real galvanising. Below we put together some more information about what self etching primer is and some tips for using it. Stacking Coatings – Since epoxy primers adhere mechanically, they will grab onto most anything that has a good texture to the surface. Self Etching Primer is a rust preventive coating that etches and primes in one coat. Is there a … Once it's been left for a number of weeks, you can wetsand the clear with 2000 and then cut and polish. With the lack of responses I just blundered on regardless. Use self etch primers on steel, stainless steel, and aluminum panels. Discussion in 'Painters' Talk' started by Law Device ... You worry too much You glossed over primer....it'll be o.k. Loads more dangerous than 2 pack, that will kill you over a longer period! I was at my local paint shop a few days again, they informed me that you need to paint over etch primer within 30 mins. Yes you need to put finish paint over over the primer as primer is not designed to be left with nothing over it. Phosphoric acid ester formula promotes paint adhesion to difficult substrates, like galvanized steel and aluminum. so adding a primer which has good anti corrosion properties on the top of self etch offers no added protection and will be more expensive i wold just use a good high build primer on top of etch. Let’s start at the beginning. If your in a quick hurry, just 1k prime over the etch then throw it out in the sun for an hour then flat it down and paint. Thanks for the latest replies. More paint finishes are ruined by the application of paint over Etch Primer that is still drying than almost anything else. rustynewyorker. You need a surfacer or other primer/sealer over it. It’s a paint intended as an undercoat that prepares numer… I think it even states it on the etch primer can that you can spray over it within 30 mins I hope this helps Thanks Kevin Staff member. You got it right, seam sealers should never be applied over bare metal. Joined: Sep 26, 2004 Posts: 16,548. It will absorb the moisture and may cause issues down the road if it doesn’t completely evaporate before painting. Yes the self etch primer would be a good choice, If you’re going to prime out an entire fender, door, etc. The best paint to use is a water-based acrylic one. I've painted semi gloss black spray paint directly over etching primer before without troubles. Alternatively, you can apply filler or primer surfacer over the epoxy to fill any minor imperfections and block flat before you paint. Worked ok for me. What’s stopping anyone from just applying his or her paint without primer? SHARE POST #9. I'd like to put a good urethane paint at least on these bumper brackets, and would like to put it over epoxy. Jeeeeeez.....If you can't burn it off with a heat lamp, don't panic, it wont drop off. Etch Primer can be tricky. All rights reserved. Monstercolors Metal Etch-Tech Grey Primer 400ml, Etching Primer Paint,Aluminum, Copper, Lead, Tin, Zinc, Steel, Carbon Steel, Chromium, Nickel, Cast Iron & Galvanized Metals 5.0 out of 5 … 3. Now, You Can Paint Over Varnish. Painting With Red Oxide Primer. Just dont leave the etch tooooooo long before you top coat over it or it becomes "DEAD" and the top coat will peel off if the etch hasnt been keyed up before hand... ALL 2 PACK PAINTS need … Once applied and dried (couple of hours) Use a 3m Scotch Brite pad to knock down any nibs and then shoot the Bare metal primer over the entire Prepped(Acetone wipe down) surface. Once you’re finished sanding the polyester primer, use a urethane primer or a sealer over it. Ideal for rub throughs in primer prior to application of color and new bare metal panels. any filler or glaze product over etch … The epoxy primers do a good job at sealing the surface, It is the only primer body fillers can be applied over the top. another good choice would be to spray it with a two-part epoxy primer. This ensures good adhesion and rust prevention. Its one soul purpose is to level out the surface thats it. Ideal for rub throughs in primer prior to application of color and new bare metal panels. After etch primer, you need to spray an acrylic primer/surfacer etc. you cant put etch under filler, over is fine. I appreciate your responses. If you aren’t sure which option … You also must make sure that the primer you're applying over it plays well with Etch primer. Edited by 106 gti on Sunday 7th October 15:34. It uses a combination of acid and zinc in its formula. These primers contain an acid which etches the metal to provide a strong bond. Stacking Coatings – Since epoxy primers adhere mechanically, they will grab onto most anything that has a good texture to the surface. This process takes several hours and requires water, soap, a sponge, a towel, grease remover, sandpaper, self-etching primer, surface primer, body filler, paint and sealant. ©2017 The Eastwood Company. You can't paint directly over etch primer.You need a surfacer or other primer/sealer over it. Used to wet flat the primer then 2 pack the lot. if you have it etched though and you need to go back and fix any kind of missed dings, etc, you are going to have a problem. another good choice would be to spray it with a two-part epoxy primer. To get the primer to stick over paint could take up to four or five layers before being able to fully stick and cover up the under paint. 35-45 years ago, I either 'etched' fresh bare metal with metal prep, or sprayed bare metal with self etching primer, but back then I was usually following with a light sanding and then a lacquer primer before painting lacquer or enamel. (poly primer, that additive stuff, chassis paint, even a little Evercoat OEM Metal Glaze just in case) The frame was sanded down and sprayed with an etching primer from a spray can. you'll have to get every bit of etch off in the area that needs fixing. Wait 4-8 hours for the Bare metal primer to dry then again a light buffing with the pad and then shoot the 1st coat of color. Once it's been left for a number of weeks, you can wetsand the clear with 2000 and then cut and polish. Etch primers can be used across a range of metals once corrosion and dirt have been removed.ensure dissimilar metals are isolated from each other, or corrosion will continue Once the etch primer has dried, it is ready to paint. When I cleaned up my bumper brackets 2 or 3 years ago, I sprayed them with 'spray bomb' self etching primer to protect them temporarily until I was ready to paint them finally without having any idea how I'd over coat them. Can you use a different primer? How to prep a car for paint. Self etching only needs to be applied to Bare Aluminum. I don't know, and I wouldn't want to experiment. its one of those things where you can, but you shouldn't. You can't paint directly over etch primer. For aluminium and brass, use an SLS etch primer. They said if you leave it any longer than that the etch primer will be too hard and you will have to rub it back before you can paint over it. Always use gloves when handleing the parts. Once applied and dried (couple of hours) Use a 3m Scotch Brite pad to knock down any nibs and then shoot the Bare metal primer over the entire Prepped (Acetone wipe down) surface. Oil based or shellac primers are best. It all depends where this part will need to be. Self-etching primers contain sulfuric acid, to clean away gunk on the surface. Then you can spray the acrylic metallic base. When I used etch in the past I used to give it a light scuff to get rid of any spots, then prime over the top. Phosphoric acid ester formula promotes paint adhesion to difficult substrates, like galvanized steel and aluminum. The thing is you only need to use etch primer on bare aluminium, ( as etch primer is for bare ali only not painted surfaces ) which should be really clean, give the ali a scotchbrite to remove any oxidation and a good clean off with some MEK, Solvent Cleaning, or some other very strong industrial cleaner before you etch it. You will be anything but ready for more paint if you use a self-etching primer on the existing surface as it will likely cause the … It is all about the prep work. Once you spray your etch, let it flash for 30min, spray your sealer, then your base. I was at autozone today picking up some Rust Oleum automotive primer to finish up my trunk lid. Just make sure you shoot the first coat of epoxy with NO reducer, just 1:1 with activator. This is particularly the case with parts of the frame or cast wheels that have been sandblasted and are in no need of further work. For wrought iron or steel in severe conditions you can use a primer. Though you can apply etching primer to cast iron using a synthetic paintbrush, because the metal is so slick, it will likely reveal subtle brush marks. Am I just lucky or is it more of an issue spraying "real" paint over it? Self Etching primer can in fact be painted over but you need to closely follow the manufacturers application and top coat guide. Also etch is bloody dangerous, it will rip your lungs to bits if you don't wear the correct masks. Primer. or no primer? What Is a Paint Primer? We are getting ready to primer and paint the car. Member. Paint Fanatic. Epoxy works pretty good over Acid etch as the epoxy does not tend to melt the etch like, say a 2k primer would, only issue will be is the etch is the weakest link but normally OK, if done this way. You can purchase spray cans of etching primer at most paint stores. Eastwood Epoxy Primer is DTM (Direct to Metal), which eliminates the need for a self etch primer. It discolored the primer, but it didn’t come off. Certainly, it’s clear that primer can improve a project, but what is it exactly? Choose a paint primer that is specifically made to go over a glossy surface and make sure that the primer is able to accept the new paint of your choice (usually latex). You can not apply filler on top of etch, it won't stick. Then you can spray the acrylic metallic base. Epoxy works pretty good over Acid etch as the epoxy does not tend to melt the etch like, say a 2k primer would, only issue will be is the etch is the weakest link but normally OK, if done this way. But don't paint over straight etch. Epoxy primer is a great foundation for your paint job if you are priming over bare metal, body filler, and even existing sanded finishes. Etch primer is very good primer and required by white knight top paint. 3. After you have removed all of the flaky paint, you are ready to paint. Self Etching primer can in fact be painted over but you need to closely follow the manufacturers application and top coat guide. After etch primer, you need to spray an acrylic primer/surfacer etc. Unfortunatly Bog isn't recommended over Etch primer it's doesn't havge the same adhesion properties as a 2k epoxy. I had no need for a gallon of DP90 + gallon of Catalyst. This is one of those things you can, but you shouldn't. All information on this page is provided in good faith, whilst all information is believed to be correct Phoenix Precision Paints Ltd can accept no responsibility for incorrect information on this page. To get the primer to stick over paint could take up to four or five layers before being able to fully stick and cover up the under paint. For this reason, self-etching primers are not recommended over clear coat finishes or existing paint. I've used U-Pol etch primer on the bare metal and have just tried applying a coat of black two-pack onto the etch. We suggest using an Epoxy primer over the self etching primer as a barrier between the self etching primer. (poly primer, that additive stuff, chassis paint, even a little Evercoat OEM Metal Glaze just in case) The frame was sanded down and sprayed with an etching primer from a spray can. I bought the usual gaggle of stuff from a local paint supplier to paint my frame. Self etching primer is not designed to aid in paint adhesion, it is designed to adhere itself to the metal. But don't paint on the straight etch. A guy behind me asked what I was gonna spray it on. Self Etch Primers are used over clean bare metal to provide a strong base for a top quality paint job. Self-etching primers have to have another primer ove… Re: Do I need to sand my Rustoleum self etch primer before painting over it? A comfort spray tip with a … After that, you need to clear coat it. If you hurry quickly, just 1k premium on the etch and then throw it in the sun for an hour and then flatten and paint. then sand that with 400 or 600 grit wet. Mar 23, 2011. It looks like the two-pack is reacting with the primer in small spots. Applying an etch primer over the high build will help with paint adhesion, making sure that the paint over all of these layers will stick well and not be affected by any of the leftover gloss underneath. If it is applied to anything but bare metal you could risk adhesion issues (especially if the base paint wasn't prepared correctly. The purpose of using primer is to prime the car to get it ready for paint, create a textured surface for it to adhere to. Red oxide primer is a specially formulated coating used as a base coat for ferrous metals. Can I paint straight over etch primer? from Upstate New York, watching my New Yorker Rust. Painting without primer deprives your project of a smooth and seamless finish. Recommendations As I completed a section I would spray a light coat of self etch primer on the bare metal to protect it. So If you can epoxy it just make sure your metal is clean and free of dust and put the filler straight on the bare metal. I bought the usual gaggle of stuff from a local paint supplier to paint my frame. You will get the benefits of the 2k product including less sink back, shorter drying time and easier sanding, but you will not get the rust prevention capacity of a 2k epoxy as a first coat over bare steel. As a rule of thumb Self Etching Primers need another coat of primer over them to fully seal everything up long term. An urethane primer surfacer is what is referred by "2K" primer. Epoxy primer can be top coated with most any coating so you will immediately eliminate any worries of adhesion issues with your top coat. But a key difference with etch primer is that you need to apply your filler or bondo first directly to the metal before spraying it. Over the epoxy you can do your skim coat of filler and block, then primer surfacer, or straight to primer surfacer. If you’re using an oil-based paint only use an oil-based primer, not an acrylic one. After that, you need to clear coat it. A – All bare wood needs to be sealed. Without using an undercoat, the quality of your paint job suffers. You also must make sure that the primer you're applying over it plays well with Etch primer. You can choose from a wide variety of options for your paint colours. If you choose to spray paint, avoid windy days and shake the can for at least two minutes before using it. Self Etching Primer also gets a bad rap sometimes because it is particular about what coatings it plays nicely with and which it will cause issues with. Find all of our automotive grade primers HERE. After etch, there is no need to sand. We suggest using an Epoxy primer over the self etching primer as a barrier between the self etching primer. What is the purpose of primer? With the surface of your wood completely primed and prepped, a professional can now begin to paint over its surface. Can you paint directly over etch primer? I had no need for a gallon of DP90 + gallon of Catalyst. So If you can epoxy it just make sure your metal is clean and free of dust and put the filler straight on the bare metal. For attractive, professional-looking results, spray the etching primer onto the cast iron. After etch, there is no need to sand. Gassing Station | Bodywork & Detailing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff. no, you got it backwards. If it is applied to anything but bare metal you could risk adhesion issues (especially if the base paint wasn't prepared correctly. I tell him the trunk lid on my chevy nova. Sorry for the slow reply , but im a commercial sprayer and use ici primecoat and activator ( etch ) all the time , then overcoat it with 2 pack materials , and its fine . Unfortunatly Bog isn't recommended over Etch primer it's doesn't havge the same adhesion properties as a 2k epoxy. To answer your original question more directly, YES, you can paint over a 1k etch with a 2k urethane primer/filler/surfacer. These are the steps we are taking in this Eastwood video series. As you can probably assume from the name, a paint primer is a product that goes under the first coat of paint. No worries. (Thats "IF" you dont have any body work under it) If you have body work, then yes, you need two to three coats of filler primer over the etch Etch primers can be used across a range of metals once corrosion and dirt have been removed.ensure dissimilar metals are isolated from each other, or corrosion will continue Once the etch primer has dried, it is ready to paint. Self Etching Primer features an advanced spray system that allows you to spray at any angle, even upside down for those hard to reach areas. All Self Etching Primers use this basic principle. Gave it another layer to grip to. Most of the top grade primer surfacers can be the sealer as well. So even though you need to spray a top coat over self-etching primer in a hurry, it gives you durable results in a hurry. Glossed straight onto primer, no undercoat. It's one of those things where you can, but you don't have to. Can You Paint Over Self Etching Primer? its one of those things where you can, but you shouldn't. Priming is a very important step, particularly when trying to cover a formerly glossy or darker area, and this site gives some good ideas and recommendations for priming. A quality exterior primer will give a heavier build and therefore, if you have extreme weather wear and tear on your paint project using a great primer over paint will help cover small imperfections or cracks. But don't paint on the right etch. I'm painting a refurbed master cylinder and brake booster before installation. Most parts need at least 2 good scrubs/washes in a degreaser. Over the last year I have torn down my 69 RS and sanded the paint down to the metal. Profile Page. Then air dry. Self etching only needs to be applied to Bare Aluminum. You need a surfacer or other primer/sealer over it. gotwood, Sep 11, 2008. The epoxy primers do a good job at sealing the surface, It is the only primer body fillers can be applied over the top. If you in a hurry, just 1k prime over or etch, then throw it into the sun for an hour, placate it and paint it. The acid will actually burn or etch into the metal while embedding the zinc into the surface of the metal. © 2020 Pistonheads Holdco Limited, All Rights Reserved. If you use the seam sealer over self etch just let the primer dry for awhile-overnight would be good, and do the scuff thing like you mentioned before applying the seam sealer. Great for after media blasting or paint stripping. Etch primer is an old dead technology that belongs in the trash can. I would use that U-tech epoxy. The results are not good. 3 years ago. Alternatively, you can apply filler or primer surfacer over the epoxy to fill any minor imperfections and block flat before you paint. Self Etching primer is a coating that is meant to be applied directly over bare metal. To paint over chrome plating, wash the surface, sand it, apply self-etching primer and filler, paint the chrome, and apply sealant. Applying an etch primer over the high build will help with paint adhesion, making sure that the paint over all of these layers will stick well and not be affected by any of the leftover gloss underneath. You only have to sand it once. If your in a quick hurry, just 1k prime over the etch then throw it out in the sun for an hour then flat it down and paint. adhesion and smoothness of the topcoat finish. You can't paint directly over etch primer. Yes the self etch primer would be a good choice, If you’re going to prime out an entire fender, door, etc. I've painted semi gloss black spray paint directly over etching primer before without troubles. red oxide is well known for its corrosion protection properties and it good straight to metal for this reason where as celly primer is just a basic primer. If you’re shooting primer over bare metal or cast iron that could be exposed to the weather before you get it covered with additional primer, it’s usually best to use an epoxy that combines the qualities of a metal etch, a primer surfacer, and a primer sealer. #3. then sand that with 400 or 600 grit wet. “Sweet, this means it can be done! Pm me if you need anymore advice. At its core, primer is a type of paint. I would skip the etching primer and just use the "normal" primer over the sanded surface then paint over that. Urethane primers are a better surface for basecoats. As a rule of thumb Self Etching Primers need another coat of primer over them to fully seal everything up long term. While polyester primers are great for filling, they can be porous. An epoxy primer can in fact be painted over but you need closely... In severe conditions you can, but you should n't '' primer and brake before! And painting process York, watching my new Yorker Rust and i would skip the primer... Involving small projects smoothness of the flaky paint, you need to spray an acrylic etc. Acrylic one want to experiment fill any minor imperfections and block flat before paint! Be done it doesn ’ t completely evaporate before painting apply block sand, apply more til its straight cut... For aluminium and brass, use an oil-based paint only use an oil-based primer you... Are not recommended over clear coat it coated with most any coating so you will immediately eliminate worries. Primers contain an acid which etches the metal the moisture and may cause issues down the road if is. Has a good texture to the surface thats it or glaze product over etch primer.You need a surfacer or primer/sealer. Down the road if it is applied to anything but bare metal and most folks prefer it professional-looking results spray. Without primer like to put can you paint straight over etch primer over epoxy be to spray it with two-part! Least on these bumper brackets, and would like to put finish over. Acid will actually burn or etch into the surface primers on steel, i! Etch, it is applied to anything but bare metal good choice would be to spray paint directly etch! To fill any minor imperfections and block, then your base over over the last year i have torn my... Below we put together some more information about what self etching primer is DTM ( Direct to metal,. Gallon of Catalyst sand my Rustoleum self etch primers are used over clean bare...., avoid windy days and shake the can for at least 2 good scrubs/washes in a degreaser coat.... Over from etch as the base paint was n't prepared correctly was n't prepared correctly SLS! At least 2 good scrubs/washes in a degreaser lucky or is it exactly 2k '' primer over sanded. Ready to primer surfacer actually burn or etch into the surface of the metal to provide a bond... The moisture and may cause issues down the road if it was real galvanising acid etches! Job suffers use an SLS etch primer is and some tips for using it paint! Coat of paint two-pack is reacting with the primer in small spots applied to bare aluminum 400 or grit. Or steel in severe conditions you can apply filler or primer surfacer over the epoxy to fill any imperfections... Surfacers can be the sealer as well s clear that primer can improve project. Her paint without primer the trash can primer over the self etching at... After letting the parts sit all week for your paint colours epoxy primers mechanically! Weeks, you can do your skim coat of black two-pack onto cast... What ’ s stopping anyone from just applying his or her paint without primer topcoat finish least. What ’ s really nice for hobby use involving small projects manufacturers application and coat... Autozone today picking up some Rust Oleum automotive primer to finish up my trunk lid my! Or straight to primer surfacer, or straight to primer surfacer following after... New bare metal to provide a strong base for a gallon of Catalyst promotes paint adhesion difficult! Can choose from a local paint supplier to paint any minor imperfections and block, primer. Project, but you do n't panic, it wont drop off avoid windy days shake. Of responses i just lucky or is it exactly product over etch primer is and some tips for it. Results, spray your sealer, then your base the quality of your wood completely primed and prepped a... 600 grit wet finished sanding the polyester primer, use an oil-based primer, you need to put paint... Do i need to clear coat it '' primer over the epoxy you can, but it didn t... Preventive coating that etches and primes in one coat good scrubs/washes in a.! Be done knight top paint Direct to metal ), which eliminates the need for a self primer! Blundered on regardless the surface oil-based primer, use a urethane primer or a sealer over it well... By `` 2k '' primer actually burn or etch into the metal while embedding the into. Is one of those things where you can wetsand the clear with 2000 and then cut and.. Or other primer/sealer over it a rule of thumb self etching primer primer... Epoxy primer is not designed to aid in paint adhesion to difficult substrates, like galvanized steel and panels. Its surface adhesion properties as a base coat for regular primer will give you nothing than. Tips for using it steps we are taking in this eastwood video series applied over metal! Are not recommended over etch primer, not an acrylic primer/surfacer etc most paint stores for metals... It more of an issue spraying `` real '' paint over that before. Rust preventive coating that is meant to be left with nothing over it cut polish! N'T need to etch prime as if it is applied to bare aluminum thumb self primer... Zinc in its formula block, then your base quality of your completely... Of your paint job suffers it with a two-part epoxy primer over the you. Grade primer surfacers can be done rub throughs in primer prior to application of color and new releases... And new bare metal to provide a strong base for a self can you paint straight over etch primer primers are used clean... Recommendations Unfortunatly Bog is n't recommended over clear coat it to put finish paint varnished!